Multiple undocked views in FS2004 or FSX

Yep the same "Undocked Window" method can be done with FSX.

Once you are happy with your alignment and views, you just save the "flight stiuation" as your default and

you wont have to configure again

Dont for get the third method of "true" 180 FOV, and that is with 3 computers running each projecter

independantly, using WideView or VRSync. Thats what I am "playing" with at the moment.

Nat

I feel like jumping in here and explain a few things.

FS9 and FSX is two different things regarding setting up the visuals. Different approaches there. FSX is the nice one, FS9 is the tricky.

Many people write about making a 180 degree setup based on 5 undocked views.

This by making left---left fwd---fwd---right fwd--- right windows. So this is 5 windows out of 8 in total to make a 360 circle. 360 divided into 8 =45 degrees per window.  45 degrees multiplied by 5 = 225 degrees of visual.

Remember, when you are looking straight left: Straight left (-90 degree) is in the middle of the left view window.

There are some myths around on this 180 setup. Use a piece of paper, and make your visual there. A circle is your best friend. There are a few people around that really believe that their visual is 180 degrees, but actually they have a 225 degree on a 180 screen, so their flying experience will not feel right at all. Just because they did not do the math before they started building.

Hi Gene

Yes, you can use 4 windows to make 180 degrees fro sure. The backdraw is that you will get a window border in the runway centerline. I would not like that. But you can easily make 180 with 3 or 5 windows. (FSX). You can set the angle of the windows manually in the .FLT file, so three windows at 60 degree each would be 180 total

My physical screen is 225 degrees. Using three windows at 75 degree angle each. Have also tested with 5 windows at 45 each, but fps drops significant.

I was concerned with setting up the views in FSX as well, and I was curious about how far it could be taken.  Not wanting to do all the calculations by hand, I set up an Excel spreadsheet to do it for me.  Check it out in my thread over at MyCockpit.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/20216-Borders-on-windows-window-alignment-tool

I'm not all that happy about the black border around each window, but if you set it up for three views of 60°F each, that black border will just be unused pixels at the edge of the projected image, invisible once the projectors are aligned.

Let me just ease a little pain for some trying to configure .flt files for multiple views.  Here's a brief explanation of the window and camera definitions:

Inside you'll find a list of entries related to the windows opened when you saved the flight.  Here is Window 2 from a flight file.

[Window.2]

Window number.  There will always be one window (Window.1) for any saved flight.

Order=2

Not sure exactly what this refers to as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the view number that appears on screen.  This doesn't appear to be too significant though.

Active=False

Only one window will be active at any one time and will determine what sounds are heard (i.e. inside or outside view) and what view is changed with the HAT switch or A key.

Undocked=False

Whether the view is undocked or not (see cautionary note below).

Maximized=False

If this is set to true the view will consume the entire window and override "ScreenUniCoords" setting.

ScreenUniCoords=0, 0, 2731, 6144

OK, the most interesting and perhaps important setting so lets get to know it.  I eventually found the explanation for this on the MS ESP FS site as there is no mention in the FS SDK docs (that I could ever find), so I will quote from the ESP doc:

Universal Screen Co-ordinates

Universal screen co-ordinates is a system designed to make screen positions independent of screen resolution. The universal co-ordinates extend from 0,0 in the top left hand corner to a width of 8192 and a height of 6144. So, for example, if the universal co-ordinates of a rectangle are 500,400,7192, 650 (which is X,Y,sizeX,sizeY) and the screen resolution is 1024 x 768, then this would translate as follows:
X = 500 * (1024/8192) = 62.5
Y = 400 * (768/6144) = 50
sizeX = 7192 * (1024/8192) = 899
sizeY = 650 * (768/6144) = 81.25
So the pixel position of the top left hand corner of the rectangle is 62,50 with a width of 899 and a height of 81 pixels.

This of course means the one setting fits all as far as screen size and layout is concerned.

Cautionary Note: there is an issue in ESP v1.0 (also FSX) with the use of undocked windows and undoccoords. The values are not restored correctly during a load, and will revert to a default setting.  So if you use undocked views you can't guarantee their correct placement on next reload.

UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0

Same definition as ScreenUniCoords.  Please note the bug in FS listed ubove.

CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

This is where you'll set the zoom, rotation and pitch etc. of the view.  This setting lists the GUID of the camera currently selected for the view concerned and is followed by any number of camera sections which affect how many different views you can cycle through.  These cameras are determined and inserted by the Global camera file.  For fixed multi views as used in a flightsim setup we are only concerned with the current camera.  Find this by tracking down the particular Camera definition with the same GUID as that listed in the CurrentCamera setting.  Its usually the first one.  All the rest can be deleted if you don't need them.

[Camera.2.1]

Specific unique camera name

Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

GUID should match CurrentCamera

Zoom=0.7

Zoom factor at flight save.  FS allows anything from 0.0 to 512.

Translation=0, 0, 0

This is the X,Y,Z position of your eyepoint relative to the CG point set in the Aircraft.cfg file.  This setting is called InitialXyz in the aircraft.cfg file and the units are metres.  For X - Fwd is +ve, Bwd is -ve.  For Y - Right is +ve and Left is -ve.  For Z - Up is +ve and Dn is -ve.

Rotation=0, -28.7, 0

This is where you set the heading and is in the format Pitch, Heading, Bank (no not P,B,H as in the Aircraft.cfg file!), these figures are all degrees.  This setting is called InitialPbh in the aircraft.cfg with the last two settings reversed (MS obviously had different teams working on each section and didn't talk to each other!). For P - Dn is +ve and Up is -ve.  For H - Right is +ve and Left is -ve.  For B - Left is +ve and Right is -ve.

For a 3 view setup you'll need the 3 views plus another maximised view in the background as FS always needs at least one max view.  To do this use the following config layout and you should have no problem.  You'll notice the first window.1 is set to Maximized and is zoomed max (512).  The ScreenUniCoord doesn't matter as its overriden by the Maximized setting.  My 3 views are Windows 2, 3 & 4 and I'm using a zoom of 0.7.  By making the first window.1 Active, you avoid the white border around one of your main views.  Fiddle with the Heading angle int the Rotation setting to get your 3 views lined up correctly. 

The best way to do that is to assign a key combination in FS for "Aircraft Reload".  This isn't assigned by default so assign something like "Ctrl-Shift-R", then fire up your flight, open the ?.flt file and edit a parameter, then go back to FS and reload the aircraft to see the changes.  One proviso though, make sure to turn off all AI traffic (turn sliders all the way down), if an AI aircraft is in your vicinity and is the same aircraft model as yours then the reload won't work as the AI overrides it.

[Window.1]
Order=3
Active=True
Undocked=False
Maximized=True
ScreenUniCoords=0, 0, 10, 10
UndocCoords=10, 10, 10, 10
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=512
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Window.2]
Order=1
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=0, 0, 2737, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

[Camera.2.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.7
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -28.700000762939453, 0

[Window.3]
Order=0
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2737, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

[Camera.3.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.7
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Window.4]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5462, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

[Camera.4.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.7
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 28.700000762939453, 0

Here is a link to the MS ESP doc.

I hope that helps.

Ken.

Hi,

Many thanks, Ken, for that

Oops sorry guys I did some editing of my original post and now its dissappered saying its gone for moderation.  Should be back soon then.

Ken.

The site gets hit quite a lot by spam bots, so the anti-spam measures (which are 3 levels deep) can sometimes be a bit over-zealous. Sorry about that, it's one of those things...

Unfortunately, FSX will display the virtual cockpit for oblique views in the 2-D cockpit view mode.  I haven't found a way to disable this behavior.  There is a workaround, however.

Find the model.cfg file for the aircraft you'll be flying and comment out the interior model definition (add "\\" before the interior model line). 

That looks like the output from my spreadsheet on mycockpit.org.  If so, the zoom will be incorrect unless you have Wideviewaspect=TRUE in your FSX.cfg file.

My thread on Mycockpit.org: http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/20216-Borders-on-windows-window-alignment-tool

Info on Wideviewaspect: http://www.widescreengaming.net/wiki/Flight_Simulator_X#Widescreen_Support

Regarding the black border around each window; I'm still hoping someone knows how to turn that off.

Hi Scott,

If you're using an FS9 aircraft as your flight model in FSX then you'll need to find a version that doesn't have a VC included.  FSX models have separate model files for interior and exterior so you only need to delete the interior file or comment out the interior entry in the model.cfg file as already suggested above.  The side views created are always in VC mode for some reason and can't be selected to Cockpit mode without also losing your tweaked angles.

As for the black borders around views that was asked elsewhere there doesn't appear to be any way to remove these as they are a function of Fullscreen undocked windows.

And as for the question about zoom and angles, these will need to be tweaked using a trial and error method until the most adequate sizing is achieved for each Left and Right window.  You'll also find the zoom and angle will be slightly different for both views possibly due to the "eyepoint" setting in the aircraft.cfg file.  The "eyepoint" entry in the aircraft.cfg file caters for the pilot offset with respect to the runway centreline and is usually a negative value putting the pilots view to the left of fuselage centre.  The entry is in the form X, Y, Z being Forward/Back, Right/Left, Up/Down respectively.

The centre of the cockpit should be in the centre of the middle view.   If you are getting some crab effect on the FO side you could try making the eyepoint Y setting '0' but in my experience on very wide 3 projector screens the runway centreline still appears correct on either side.  The wider the view and longer the distance to screen the less crab effect is noticed.

The "WideViewAspect=False or True" setting in the fsx.cfg file is only useful for seeing more of the cockpit panel in VC mode it has no effect on our 2D configs.  Remember this sim was designed primarily for use on a desktop using a single monitor.  We push the boundaries!

Its all a learning curve.

Ken.

Tom,

I've tested the spreadsheet at 1024x768, 5 windows, 225 degrees, WideViewAspect=True.  Everything lined up nearly perfectly, within a pixel or two of correct zoom.  I attribute this to the way FSX rounds its universal coordinate system to the actual pixel space. (The spreadsheet said 0.75555555556, everything seemed to line up better if I adjusted to somewhere close to 0.73.)  This was true whether I used the 2-d view or virtual cockpit camera GUID.  Changing resolutions had no effect on alignment, nor did total aspect ratio in windowed mode, except that as I reduced the vertical window height too far, horizontal FOV was no longer maintained.

With WideViewAspect=False, I had to zoom all the way out to 0.30, go to windowed mode, and shrink the window vertically to get the views to line up.

I don't know what you did to get things to line up at zoom = 1.2, but I am unable to reproduce that condition.

I have also found that there appears to be a minimum window width.  I tried 1024x768 and the full 32 windows allowed by FSX (31 visible + 1 full-screen background), and alignment appeared all wrong until I moved a window and noticed that it was wider than the set value.  When I manually positioned the windows edge-to-edge, everything lined up again.  I had no such difficulty with the high window count at 1920x1080.

Also very important:

There are several copies of FSX.cfg.  You must set the WideViewAspect=True flag in the FSX.cfg file found in:

\Documents and Settings\<your user name>\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX

If you edit any other copy, it won't work.

Hi,

I wander if anyone could give me some advice.

I am using FSX , my H/W is as follows:

• I7 930
• GIGA ga-EX85A-UD5 MB
• 6 MB Corsair TR3X6G1600
• CIGA GTX470 N470D5-131-B 1280M.
• Matrox TH2Go digital box with three projectors.

I have loaded UT for Europe and Nt. America , GX for Europe and Nt. America.  All is running very well with an average of 30-45 FPS. All scenery setting are set to the top.

Now, I would like to extend my visuals to the magic 225 degrees. And I started by adding the Wideviewaspect=TRUE in my FSX.cfg file

The using the WindowsMaker downloaded from http://home.comcast.net/~wledzian1//pwpimages/WindowMaker.xls

I created initially 3 screens at 135 degrees FOV (I still three flat screens until I get these things working). I created a flight and save it, then I copied-&-paste the output from the Windows Maker into the FLT file.

I restarted the flight but the visuals drop to 7-10 FPS (making impossible to flight)

I repeated the test using 3 & 5 screens with 135 and 150 degrees FOV, and reducing the scenery settings, but without any improvement in the FPS rate. I keep the video card drive updated.

As indicated any comment or suggestion would be very much appreciated.

 Best regards.

 Skywalker

whitav8,

   You can stay in windowed mode, this is fine.  In regards to undocking the separate windows, you need to do the following:

1. Undock the window to move it into the position you want it in (this will have the warping separate)

2. RMB on the window and unselect "undock window".  (this will have the warping matching the main view)

  Give that a shot and see how you go, let us know if there are any other problems.

   Gary

Problem (hopefully) solved.  Hark40 sent me a copy of the .flt file he was using; He was using a comma as a decimal separator.

Hello
we are building an yak18 simulator,so you can see in this thread: http://nthusim.com/forum-topic/building-yak18t-simulator
we are using three mitsubishi projectors so we get 1280x1024 each ,on matroxth2g,next thing i would like to ask is i tried window maker utility
but seems zoom values and coordinates won't fit ,but which way i change zoom or coordinates the image will fit in but still objects are bigger in one window and smaller in other.
could anyone please send me  settings for .flt file for 3 windows 180 degress of view,or better 5 windows for 225 degrees or better 3 views 225 degrees,so we could have more FPS))

thanks you very much for your apport in our project.

Wledzian sent me a setup that works,which i like to thank im very much,
but one more question that remains:Is the windowmaker utility depending on what resolution i am using
Thank you!

I've recently been really getting into FSX. Is there a good tutorial link on how to do the undocked window trick? I've been working up some hardware prototypes lately and want to put two of the prototypes together and see how 360 degree projection is in FSX. I've currently been toying with FSX Acceleration, SBuilderX to make photoreal tiles and REX Extreme with the Aerosoft Las Vegas scenery.